What are your opinions about the book and the article from LA Times?

Is criticism elitist?




The masses aren't asses

Harry Potter is a true literary success -- no matter what some critics say.

By Charles Taylor

July 18, 2007


IN AN AGE when we are constantly told that the printed word is dying, J.K. Rowling defied the received wisdom.

I'm not the first critic to compare the midnight frenzies that have greeted every Harry Potter book since the fourth to the crowds waiting on the New York docks for the ships carrying the next installment of Charles Dickens' "The Old Curiosity Shop," frantically calling out to the sailors to ask if Little Nell had died.

Nor am I the first to note that the extraordinary level of excitement around the Harry Potter books was generated not by media saturation on the part of the publisher, Scholastic, but by the spontaneous enthusiasm of young readers, which was buoyed and expanded by the enthusiasm of a steadily increasing number of older readers.

That's right: Manufactured buzz alone cannot create or sustain the public's enthusiasm. You need only look at this summer's box-office returns, with the end-of-the-line grosses for the "Shrek," "Pirates of the Caribbean," and "Ocean's" franchises, to see that. Yet the excitement about Harry Potter has steadily grown over nine years, and for all the merchandise tie-ins, the movie franchise and all the other Potter folderol, we should remember that all those products came in response to the public's enthusiasm and were not part of a campaign to create that enthusiasm.

Rest of the article here (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-taylor18jul18,1,5608842.story?ctrack=1&cset=true)



:)

yess,certainly is a literary success,in fact it does not matter whether it is an just imagination or not,

I think it certainly is. It attracts audiences of all ages, this alone shows how successfull it is =) And of course, it's the writer's imagination that made it that successfull

First off all, we must consider the criteria of success.

First off all, we must consider the criterias of success.

for this masterpiece,we dont need that...cuz it proved itself by billions of readers

Do you really think that Harry Potter inspires somebody except for children? Or gives any messages that can be taken seriously?

I do not think it is a success literally.If it had a message literally impressive,it wouldnt become a hit worldwide,would it?

I dont think that the average literal awareness has grown that bigger.

First off all, we must consider the criterias of success.

Yes; what are the criteria of literary success of a book ?




PS: Dear aksun,

criterion => singular

criteria or criterions => plural

(not "criterias")

just for reminding:)

Yes; what are the criteria of literary success of a book ?




PS: Dear aksun,

criterion => singular

criteria or criterions => plural

(not "criterias")

just for reminding:)

Thanks sir...

Do you really think that Harry Potter inspires somebody except for children? Or gives any messages that can be taken seriously?

you know,Harry Potter is what today's world necessiates,i am 19 and i have lots of friends are crazy about Harry Potter frankly,not only Harry Potter,Spiderman,Matrix,The Lord of the Rings,,.etc you know imagination is something beyond of everything..not only appeals to children,appeals to everybody,,,

you know,Harry Potter is what today's world necessiates,i am 19 and i have lots of friends are crazy about Harry Potter frankly,not only Harry Potter,Spiderman,Matrix,The Lord of the Rings,,.etc you know imagination is something beyond of everything..not only appeals to children,appeals to everybody,,,

That's not answer of my quesion Burak. My criteria is different.

That's not answer of my quesion Burak. My criteria is different.

i replied your ''Do you really think that Harry Potter inspires somebody except for children? Or gives any messages that can be taken seriously? '' question ....

First off all, we must consider the criteria of success.
Absolutly
for this masterpiece,we dont need that...cuz it proved itself by billions of readers
As much as Rocky, Or One Rich Hotel Owner girls' stories.
Do you really think that Harry Potter inspires somebody except for children? Or gives any messages that can be taken seriously?
l could not find but if one please tell.
I do not think it is a success literally.If it had a message literally impressive,it wouldnt become a hit worldwide,would it?
l agree but l do not
I dont think that the average literal awareness has grown that bigger.?
Charles DICKENS l would like to say now!

i replied your ''Do you really think that Harry Potter inspires somebody except for children? Or gives any messages that can be taken seriously? '' question ....

So Burak for fun it is good...?
Interesting is according to Plato (Aksun) it is not.
But for Aristoteles (Burak) it is.

PS: Even for Aristo it is not:rolleyes:

In my opinion Harry Potter is a part of popular culture. It's not a literary success. I think rating is not a criterion of success.

In my opinion Harry Potter is a part of popular culture. It's not a literary success. I think rating is not a criterion of success.

..then what is criterion of success ?

you know,Harry Potter is what today's world necessiates,i am 19 and i have lots of friends are crazy about Harry Potter frankly,not only Harry Potter,Spiderman,Matrix,The Lord of the Rings,,.etc you know imagination is something beyond of everything..not only appeals to children,appeals to everybody,,,

Have you ever thought on your own why these kind of stuffs usually appear as an opiate at a time when disappointment, anxiety and depression increase all over the world?

Charles DICKENS l would like to say now!

I cant think of their fame as the same.Those who dont know much about Charles Dickens are worshipping fans of Harry Potter.

What I mean by my words is that the book is not sophisticated but serves the common feelings so it became global.Like football,coke etc.

When reading a book if somebody couldn't control the emotions this would be the success.

I cant think of their fame as the same.Those who dont know much about Charles Dickens are a worshipping fas of Harry Potter.

What I mean by my words is that the book is not sophisticated but serves the common feelings so it became global.Like football,coke etc.

That is right .
Charles DICKENS should be pioneer figure for whom writes in Literature .
Harry Potter, popcorn and coke :icon_tup:

When reading a book if somebody couldn't control the emotions this would be the success.

One of the criteria but not all.

Have you ever thought on your own why these kind of stuffs usually appear as an opiate at a time when disappointment, anxiety and depression increase all over the world?

Please read this question carefully.
This is the heart of subject!

I think so...

Have you ever thought on your own why these kind of stuffs usually appear as an opiate at a time when disappointment, anxiety and depression increase all over the world?
and maybe people wanna escape from daily-life
no i havent thought because no one seems to be uncomfortable about these masterpieces,not stuffs (remember please sir,all of these films,novels are brought about by extensive human labor,and again please respect them )

Please read this question carefully.
This is the heart of subject!

Have you ever thought on your own why these kind of stuffs usually appear as an opiate at a time when disappointment, anxiety and depression increase all over the world?

In order to hide realities...

in my opinion, true successes can't be recognized in a very short time.when world classics were published in that age,nobody could know they would be classics.but in time,people eliminated the good ones from avarage ones.so,after a couple of years (the exact meaning for "couple" can only be defined later) its true success will become clear.
and in my opinion,harry potter can't be a classic.if the books are shining now,the only reason for this is their movies,made with great special effects by hollywood (the richest movie sector).and because of the money ambition for more,harry potter is losing his fame day by day and becoming ordinary.

So, it's difficult to see how we can separate the results of good publicity from judgements about the merits of a book; after all, if I decide to read Harry Potter or anything else because of the hype surrounding it, does that make my subsequent assessment of how well written or worthwhile I found it any less valid?

:)

in my opinion, true successes can't be recognized in a very short time.when world classics were published in that age,nobody could know they would be classics.but in time,people eliminated the good ones from avarage ones.so,after a couple of years (the exact meaning for "couple" can only be defined later) its true success will become clear.
YOU ARE ENG.LIT. STUDENT AND AS YOU KNOW THIS IS NOT SUIT FOR C.DICKENS;)
and in my opinion,harry potter can't be a classic.if the books are shining now,the only reason for this is their movies,made with great special effects by hollywood (the richest movie sector).and because of the money ambition for more,harry potter is losing his fame day by day and becoming ordinary. I DO AGREE

Have you read any C.DICKENS? Please do not take it to wrong w. but forgive my curiosity shop:rolleyes:

Have you read any C.DICKENS? Please do not take it to wrong w. but forgive my curiosity shop:rolleyes:

no,sir.not yet:( actually,i stopped reading for a while not because of studying hard for Yds-Öss but because of their stress on me.But now,i go on reading classics from Oscar Wilde,Stendhal,Steinbeck,etc. I find a different taste in classical novels and i can hardly find the same taste on relatively new books.
By the way,we were to read "A tale of two cities" in high school.But i couldn't understand a lot because i wasn't listening like others.Later,i saw its novel in English in bookshop and bought it.Also,i found a black-white movie on internet and downloaded it.But watching movies of classics is better only after reading them,i think.

Pleae read:
David Copperfield
Great Expectations
David Copperfield
A Child's History of England

These are my fav.

Pleae read:
David Copperfield
Great Expectations
David Copperfield
A Child's History of England

These are my fav.
I'll certainly read them,thanks teacher.
by the way,i watched "great expectations" , it was full of hard emotions.i found it very interesting,so i recommed you to watch its movie , too :)

Pleae read:
David Copperfield
Great Expectations
David Copperfield
A Child's History of England

These are my fav.


by English,official language,or had better we read in Turkish please suggest sir ?

I'll certainly read them,thanks teacher.
by the way,i watched "great expectations" , it was full of hard emotions.i found it very interesting,so i recommed you to watch its movie , too :) more than 30 times :p
more than 30 times :p

by English,official language,or had better we read in Turkish please suggest sir ?

The Language is easy...
http://www.classicbookshelf.com/library/Dickens/

The Language is easy...
http://www.classicbookshelf.com/library/Dickens/

thanks alot Hocam,i will surely read them....

If you ask me, comparing J.K. Rowling to Charles Dickens is like comparing apples and oranges: the former writes what are primarily children's books (even if adults do sometimes read them), while the latter (mostly) writes books for adults (even if children do sometimes read them).

It would be more worthwhile, to get a sense of Rowling's ability or lack thereof, to compare her writing to writing in established children's classics. Observe:

Not for the first time, an argument had broken out over breakfast at number four, Privet Drive. Mr. Vernon Dursley had been woken in the early hours of the morning by a loud, hooting noise from his nephew Harry's room.
"Third time this week!" he roared across the table. "If you can't control that owl, it'll have to go!"
Harry tried, yet again, to explain.
"She's bored," he said. "She's used to flying around outside. If I could just let her out at night — "
"Do I look stupid?" snarled Uncle Vernon, a bit of fried egg dangling from his bushy mustache. "I know what'll happen if that owl's let out."
He exchanged dark looks with his wife Petunia.
Harry tried to argue back but his words were drowned by a long, loud belch from the Dursleys' son, Dudley.

This is the first page of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, the second book in the series. It is not good writing: it is written in a dull, predictable, and unimaginative way. J.K. Rowling may be good at plots and such things—although I find some of the social and political ideas that appear to lie behind her stories troublesome and disturbing—but her writing is atrocious.

Now, here's this:

The Mole had been working very hard all the morning, spring-cleaning his little home. First with brooms, then with dusters; then on ladders and steps and chairs, with a brush and a pail of whitewash; till he had dust in his throat and eyes, and splashes of whitewash all over his black fur, and an aching back and weary arms. Spring was moving in the air above and in the earth below and around him, penetrating even his dark and lowly little house with its spirit of divine discontent and longing. It was small wonder, then, that he suddenly flung down his brush on the floor, said 'Bother!' and 'O blow!' and also 'Hang spring-cleaning!' and bolted out of the house without even waiting to put on his coat. Something up above was calling him imperiously, and he made for the steep little tunnel which answered in his case to the gravelled carriage-drive owned by animals whose residences are nearer to the sun and air. So he scraped and scratched and scrabbled and scrooged and then he scrooged again and scrabbled and scratched and scraped, working busily with his little paws and muttering to himself, 'Up we go! Up we go!' till at last, pop! his snout came out into the sunlight, and he found himself rolling in the warm grass of a great meadow.

This is from Kenneth Grahame's children's classic The Wind in the Willows. There is a reason that this book is still read today, 100 years after it was published: the writing is good. This is fluid and inventive writing, writing with little surprises around every corner and a delight in the beauty of words, writing that gives a sense of mystery and profundity subtlely and without smacking the reader over the head and saying "This is important!" the way J.K. Rowling does in the more serious moments of her book.

I don't think, personally, that Rowling's books are going to survive as long as Grahame's has. In 100 years, I imagine Harry Potter will be largely forgotten, and children will still be reading The Wind in the Willows.

No matter what anybody says,I'm mad for Harry Potter. when I saw his name in this thread,I rushed into it with enthusiasm.By the way I would love to state that even my sister,who is 29,reads it and she is always asking me sth about the books.Furthermore,I agree with the claim that it charms people from all ages. For example,when my mother saw a trailer of last film,she said she would certainly watch it.Now let's review what I say.It attract me(19),my sister(29) and even my mother(49),just to name a few.That's the reason why I think it is a true literary success.It also gives a message.Friendship...Is there anything more important than its message?:)By the way I respect anyone's ideas.Take cares...:):):)

yes i think so

As to whether the Harry Potter books are a success: materially—i.e., number of books sold, interest aroused, and the films my God the films, etc.—it is a great success; aesthetically, I don't see it as a success at all (but then again, I happily admit that I'm an elitist in these sorts of things).

its films etc. have fed it ,i think.its books doesnt appeal me,films may,though.
while reading sth,if we r engrossed in it n say if only it was long and didnt end.cos we think it s worth reading for a life time :rolleyes:

i ve read Harry Potter,but it made me bored,maybe i dont like its telling or sth else.i just wanna say that there must be others having true literary successes

its films etc. have fed it ,i think.its books doesnt appeal me,films may,though.
while reading sth,if we r engrossed in it n say if only it was long and didnt end,we have found pleasure in it(i ve forgetten to add that:o).cos we think it s worth reading for a life time :rolleyes:

i ve read Harry Potter,but it made me bored,maybe i dont like its telling or sth else.i just wanna say that there must be others having true literary successes

sorry again :(

As to whether the Harry Potter books are a success: materially—i.e., number of books sold, interest aroused, and the films my God the films, etc.—it is a great success; aesthetically, I don't see it as a success at all (but then again, I happily admit that I'm an elitist in these sorts of things).

The problem here is that criticism is not a collection of mere opinions. One is qualitative, and the other, merely quantitative.

Criticism is inherently elitist because middle class aesthetics rarely, if ever, result in great art/literature. Tocqueville pointed out that in democratic nations aesthetic standards decline necessarily, both in the creators and the spectators. Kitsch as aesthetic inadequacy in literature comes in two forms: propaganda and entertainment.

:)

The problem here is that criticism is not a collection of mere opinions. One is qualitative, and the other, merely quantitative.

Criticism is inherently elitist because middle class aesthetics rarely, if ever, result in great art/literature. Tocqueville pointed out that in democratic nations aesthetic standards decline necessarily, both in the creators and the spectators. Kitsch as aesthetic inadequacy in literature comes in two forms: propaganda and entertainment.

:)

l can see you can fly in Lit.
As an old Lit. Student : Well done:icon_tup:

The problem here is that criticism is not a collection of mere opinions. One is qualitative, and the other, merely quantitative.

Criticism is inherently elitist because middle class aesthetics rarely, if ever, result in great art/literature. Tocqueville pointed out that in democratic nations aesthetic standards decline necessarily, both in the creators and the spectators. Kitsch as aesthetic inadequacy in literature comes in two forms: propaganda and entertainment.

So, is this Campanella fellow (http://www.galilean-library.org/academy/viewtopic.php?p=20871) you as well?

To go back to the article that was referred to at the beginning, I do agree on some level with Harold Bloom (much as I hate to admit it, seeing as he's something of an a**hole): I'd rather kids read The Wind in the Willows. The place where I differ from him is that I've got no problem with anyone reading the Harry Potter books: if you enjoy them, then that's just great; whatever floats your boat, as they say. But for myself, I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole because I'm pompous like that.

So, is this Campanella fellow (http://www.galilean-library.org/academy/viewtopic.php?p=20871) you as well?

To go back to the article that was referred to at the beginning, I do agree on some level with Harold Bloom (much as I hate to admit it, seeing as he's something of an a**hole): I'd rather kids read The Wind in the Willows. The place where I differ from him is that I've got no problem with anyone reading the Harry Potter books: if you enjoy them, then that's just great; whatever floats your boat, as they say. But for myself, I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole because I'm pompous like that.

yeah, the virtual world is as small as a rowing-boat! :) Anyway, I appreciate your thinking on The Wind in the Willows. :)