Tam Sürüm Bilgini Göster : E.E. Cummings ...
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 17:57 Not many English-language poets played with the English language in ways as weird as E.E. Cummings did. For example:
anyone lived in a pretty how town
(with up so floating many bells down)
spring summer autumn winter
he sang his didn't he danced his did
Women and men(both little and small)
cared for anyone not at all
they sowed their isn't they reaped their same
sun moon stars rain
children guessed(but only a few
and down they forgot as up they grew
autumn winter spring summer)
that noone loved him more by more
when by now and tree by leaf
she laughed his joy she cried his grief
bird by snow and stir by still
anyone's any was all to her
someones married their everyones
laughed their cryings and did their dance
(sleep wake hope and then)they
said their nevers they slept their dream
stars rain sun moon
(and only the snow can begin to explain
how children are apt to forget to remember
with up so floating many bells down)
one day anyone died i guess
(and noone stooped to kiss his face)
busy folk buried them side by side
little by little and was by was
all by all and deep by deep
and more by more they dream their sleep
noone and anyone earth by april
wish by spirit and if by yes.
Women and men(both dong and ding)
summer autumn winter spring
reaped their sowing and went their came
sun moon stars rain
So, if you have just taken the time to read the whole thing, where do you find it strange? what confuses you? what makes sense to you? what do you think: is it silly, or profound?
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 22:49 Hmm ... I guess the poem above scared everybody off.
dilekdemir89 23rd August 2007, 23:03 Ben şiiri çeviremedim bile anlamak şöyle dursun :o
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 23:09 Ben şiiri çeviremedim bile anlamak şöyle dursun :o
Aslında böyle bir şiir çevirmemeye çalışırsanız daha iyi anlaşılabilir. İngilizce grameriyle oyun oynuyor Cummings bu şiirde çünkü.
dilekdemir89 23rd August 2007, 23:13 Anladım şimdi biraz, güzelmiş. Teşekkürler
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 23:13 Belki bu şiiri İkinci Yeni'den çıkan bazı şiirler ile kıyaslamanız yardım eder ...
Tercan Değerli 23rd August 2007, 23:13 Not many English-language poets played with the English language in ways as weird as E.E. Cummings did. For example:
anyone lived in a pretty how town
(with up so floating many bells down)
spring summer autumn winter
he sang his didn't he danced his did
Women and men(both little and small)
cared for anyone not at all
they sowed their isn't they reaped their same
sun moon stars rain
children guessed(but only a few
and down they forgot as up they grew
autumn winter spring summer)
that noone loved him more by more
when by now and tree by leaf
she laughed his joy she cried his grief
bird by snow and stir by still
anyone's any was all to her
someones married their everyoneslaughed their cryings and did their dance
(sleep wake hope and then)they
said their nevers they slept their dream
stars rain sun moon
(and only the snow can begin to explain
how children are apt to forget to remember
with up so floating many bells down)
one day anyone died i guess
(and noone stooped to kiss his face)
busy folk buried them side by side
little by little and was by was
all by all and deep by deep
and more by more they dream their sleep
noone and anyone earth by april
wish by spirit and if by yes.
Women and men(both dong and ding)
summer autumn winter spring
reaped their sowing and went their came
sun moon stars rain
So, if you have just taken the time to read the whole thing, where do you find it strange? what confuses you? what makes sense to you? what do you think: is it silly, or profound?
bulduğum gariplikler bana göre, gözüme çarpmayan da vardır
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 23:14 Anladım şimdi biraz, güzelmiş. Teşekkürler
So, as I asked above: where do you find it strange? what confuses you? what makes sense to you? what do you think: is it silly, or profound?
dilekdemir89 23rd August 2007, 23:16 Belki bu şiiri İkinci Yeni'den çıkan bazı şiirler ile kıyaslamanız yardım eder ...
Tamam bakıcam, merak ettim ben de şimdi :)
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 23:17 bulduğum gariplikler bana göre, gözüme çarpmayan da vardır
For example, let's look at this line:
he sang his didn't he danced his did
... and this one:
they sowed their isn't they reaped their same
They have exactly the same structure. But what is the structure? how can you split these two lines up into sentences? (A clue: there are two full sentences in each of those two lines.)
Tercan Değerli 23rd August 2007, 23:18 So, as I asked above: where do you find it strange? what confuses you? what makes sense to you? what do you think: is it silly, or profound?
I haven't paid attention to its meaning but does the poet want to make fun of English or what?
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 23:23 I haven't paid attention to its meaning but does the poet want to make fun of English or what?
Well, we can never know exactly what a writer means, because a lot of the time even the writer doesn't know exactly what he or she means.
But, that said, I think he's doing the opposite of making fun of English: he's loving it; he's playing games with its beautiful little words and its flexible grammar. Cummings does that a lot; he's a very playful poet.
dilekdemir89 23rd August 2007, 23:23 Not many English-language poets played with the English language in ways as weird as E.E. Cummings did. For example:
anyone lived in a pretty how town
(with up so floating many bells down)
spring summer autumn winter
he sang his didn't he danced his did
Women and men(both little and small)
cared for anyone not at all
they sowed their isn't they reaped their samesun moon stars rain
children guessed(but only a few
and down they forgot as up they grew- burasını çok beğendim
autumn winter spring summer)
that noone loved him more by more
when by now and tree by leaf
she laughed his joy she cried his grief
bird by snow and stir by still
anyone's any was all to her
someones married their everyones
laughed their cryings and did their dance
(sleep wake hope and then)they
said their nevers they slept their dream
stars rain sun moon
(and only the snow can begin to explain
how children are apt to forget to remember
with up so floating many bells down)
one day anyone died i guess
(and noone stooped to kiss his face)
busy folk buried them side by side
little by little and was by was
all by all and deep by deep
and more by more they dream their sleep( more and more mu demek acaba)
noone and anyone earth by april
wish by spirit and if by yes.
Women and men(both dong and ding)
summer autumn winter spring
reaped their sowing and went their came
sun moon stars rain
So, if you have just taken the time to read the whole thing, where do you find it strange? what confuses you? what makes sense to you? what do you think: is it silly, or profound?
buralarını çözemedim bildiğim bir parça gramer yetmedi zaten şiiri çözümlememe ama genelini anladım galiba.
dilekdemir89 23rd August 2007, 23:27 Well, we can never know exactly what a writer means, because a lot of the time even the writer doesn't know exactly what he or she means.
But, that said, I think he's doing the opposite of making fun of English: he's loving it; he's playing games with its beautiful little words and its flexible grammar. Cummings does that a lot; he's a very playful poet.
Sir, by saying he is loving it, have you expressed your feelings stronger or what? If you had said he loves it, what would the difference be between the two sentences? I know this question is irrelevant, but I just wonder:p
Tercan Değerli 23rd August 2007, 23:28 Well, we can never know exactly what a writer means, because a lot of the time even the writer doesn't know exactly what he or she means.
But, that said, I think he's doing the opposite of making fun of English: he's loving it; he's playing games with its beautiful little words and its flexible grammar. Cummings does that a lot; he's a very playful poet.
Of course we can never know what poets mean in their poems. But I really wonder Cummings tried to make his own grammar. I don't know his other poems but I think you know them so you can infer somthing as to the fact that he tried to make his own grammar if you compare
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 23:28 buralarını çözemedim bildiğim bir parça gramer yetmedi zaten şiiri çözümlememe ama genelini anladım galiba.
As I said above, then, let's look at these two lines:
he sang his didn't he danced his did
they sowed their isn't they reaped their same
Each line can be seen as having two sentences in it. Where do those sentences begin and end, do you think?
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 23:31 Sir, by saying he is loving it, have you expressed your feelings stronger or what? If you had said he loves it, what would the difference be between the two sentences?
It's not necessarily stronger or weaker. It's just standard present continuous.
I live in Arnavutköy.
I am living in Rumeli Hisarı right now.
I love poetry.
I am loving this poem.
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 23:33 Of course we can never know what poets mean in their poems. But I really wonder Cummings tried to make his own grammar. I don't know his other poems but I think you know them so you can infer somthing as to the fact that he tried to make his own grammar if you compare
He's not making a new but ordered grammar of his own. He's using entirely normal English grammar (mostly, with some exceptions) but putting unexpected words in unexpected places.
Tercan Değerli 23rd August 2007, 23:33 As I said above, then, let's look at these two lines:
he sang his didn't he danced his did
they sowed their isn't they reaped their same
Each line can be seen as having two sentences in it. Where do those sentences begin and end, do you think?
he sang his (what) and didn't he dance but ''his did'' for what I couldn't know
dilekdemir89 23rd August 2007, 23:42 As I said above, then, let's look at these two lines:
he sang his didn't he danced his did
they sowed their isn't they reaped their same
Each line can be seen as having two sentences in it. Where do those sentences begin and end, do you think?
I cannot think of anything. They just confuse me. Bakıyorum bakıyorum olmuyo
Saposcat 23rd August 2007, 23:49 I cannot think of anything. They just confuse me. Bakıyorum bakıyorum olmuyo
Yormayın kendinizi artık, fazla uğraşmayın.
He sang his didn't. (he's using "didn't" as a noun, the direct object of "sang") He danced his did. (same thing: "did" as a noun and direct object)
They sowed their isn't. (same thing: "isn't" as a noun and direct object) They reaped their same. (same thing: here "same" means "isn't"—that is "they reaped the same thing they sowed"—but it also attaches to sun moon stars rain in the next line—that is, "they reaped [the] same sun, moon, stars, and rain")
everlasting 24th August 2007, 00:07 peki burdaki ''anyone lived in a pretty how town'' nasıl oluor
dilekdemir89 24th August 2007, 00:12 Yormayın kendinizi artık, fazla uğraşmayın.
He sang his didn't. (he's using "didn't" as a noun, the direct object of "sang") He danced his did. (same thing: "did" as a noun and direct object)
They sowed their isn't. (same thing: "isn't" as a noun and direct object) They reaped their same. (same thing: here "same" means "isn't"—that is "they reaped the same thing they sowed"—but it also attaches to sun moon stars rain in the next line—that is, "they reaped [the] same sun, moon, stars, and rain")
Çok etkilendim bizzat açıklamadan, kırk yıl düşünsem belki aklıma gelirdi. Elleriniz dert görmesin hocam :p :p
Saposcat 24th August 2007, 10:27 peki burdaki ''anyone lived in a pretty how town'' nasıl oluor
The “how town” is not very clear, but it seems to just indicate a nameless but otherwise normal town. As for the strange use of “anyone” as the subject of a positive sentence—well, “anyone” is the name of the main character in the poem, the one who later on “[sings] his didn’t and [dances] his did”.
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